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【和諧討論】 席文:中醫(yī)不是科學(xué),西醫(yī)也不是。

整理時間:2013-05-08 11:26 來源:www.99912.com.cn 作者:編輯 點(diǎn)擊:

【樓主】2013-05-05 17:03

» 席文:中醫(yī)不是科學(xué),西醫(yī)也不是。
    Reflections on the Situation in the People’s Republic of China, 1987
    中華人民共和國中醫(yī)狀況的反思,1987
    
    
    
    
    I spent the first six months of 1987 in Beijing reading rare historical sources at the Academy of Traditional Chinese Medicine in Beijing. I was given every aid and courtesy by my colleagues in the China Institute for Medical History and Literature, including an office, which made it possible for me to invite graduate students, physicians and scholars to drop in freely for informal conversation. My wife and I lived in the Sino-Japanese Friendship Hospital, the largest general hospital in China, with a large proportion of professional staff members trained in Chinese medicine. We got to know a few of them fairly well. At the Academy I also gave a series of lectures and seminars to which historians, most of them medical practitioners, were invited from all over China.
    
    1987年上半年,我在北京的中醫(yī)研究院查閱珍本文獻(xiàn)資料,醫(yī)學(xué)史文獻(xiàn)研究所的同行們給了我全力的幫助和照顧,還分我一間辦公室,使我能邀請研究生、醫(yī)生和學(xué)者們隨時來聊天。我和我妻子住在中日友好醫(yī)院,中國最大綜合醫(yī)院,里面有很大一部分專業(yè)人員受過中醫(yī)的訓(xùn)練。我們與其中的一些人建立了良好的關(guān)系。期間我在中研院還作了一系列的講座和研討會,邀請全國的史學(xué)家來參加。大多數(shù)受邀者本身就是中醫(yī)生。
    
    
    My observation deepened some concerns expressed in Traditional Medicine in Contemporary China, which I finished writing in 1984. I found among medical policy-makers, physicians, and, for that matter, historians, little awareness of medical change as a worldwide phenomenon, or of what tensions between old and new systems had been resolved or had proved intractable in other countries. Social and political issues of Chinese health care are never publicly debated, and are practically unstudied by historians and others. Like all that lies within the province of the Party, such matters are risky except for the few who have the power to decide. These few, on the other hand, can make their decisions without necessarily being fully informed about the problems ordinary people face.
    
    我的所見所聞加深了我在《當(dāng)代中國的傳統(tǒng)醫(yī)學(xué)》(完成于1984年)中的一些思慮。我發(fā)現(xiàn)在醫(yī)療政策制定者,醫(yī)生,以及相關(guān)的歷史學(xué)家中,很少有人對世界范圍內(nèi)醫(yī)學(xué)的變化,在其它國家新舊體制之間哪些矛盾可以解決或哪些矛盾無法解決這些現(xiàn)象有所了解。中國醫(yī)療體系的社會和政治問題從未公開討論過,也幾乎從未被歷史學(xué)家和其他學(xué)者研究過。這些課題有一定的風(fēng)險,除了一少部分有決定權(quán)的人。但另一方面,這些人在作決定時卻可能對普通老百姓所面臨的問題并不充分了解。
    
    
    In the West a balanced view of the strengths and weaknesses of biomedicine is becoming the norm. I seldom found traditional physicians well informed. Everyone, laymen included, agreed that Western technologies are powerful, and that chemical drugs are better for acute emergencies than traditional ones, but had more side effects. It was often said that biomedical therapy is better for relieving symptoms, but treatment by a skilled Chinese doctor is more likely to result in a cure. It was rare to find an estimate more penetrating than that. Most of the usual claims by spokesmen for modern medicine were accepted at face value.
    
    在西方,生物醫(yī)學(xué)的有長處也有不足之處這種觀定已幾成定論。(在中國)我卻很少發(fā)現(xiàn)具有比較均衡的認(rèn)識的中醫(yī)生。所有人,包括普通人,都一致認(rèn)為西方科技很強(qiáng)大,化學(xué)藥品對急癥比中藥有效,但副作用也多。一種流行的說法是,西醫(yī)對減輕病癥有效,但有經(jīng)驗(yàn)的中醫(yī)可以根治疾病。很難發(fā)現(xiàn)比這種說法更深刻的分析,現(xiàn)代醫(yī)學(xué)的代言人的大多數(shù)觀點(diǎn)也被普遍接受。
    
    
    This became particularly clear at one of the seminars. I had proposed a topic that everybody was debating at the time, namely “ Is Chinese Medicine a Science?” traditional physicians know that their practice is ostentatiously supported by the government, which has silenced what before the Cultural Revolution was loud and powerful opposition. They are not entirely sure what would happen without such support. They justify this support by finding evidence that Chinese medicine is as good as the imported article. They know that in the eyes of those who determine what resources will be available ( for instance, the ratio of students in Chinese-style to those in Western-style medical schools), the criteria are those of modern science-not always well understood, but always hanging over the heads of traditional practitioners.
    
    這種現(xiàn)象在我的一次研討會上表現(xiàn)的很典型。我提出了一個當(dāng)時人人都在爭論的討論題,即:中醫(yī)是科學(xué)嗎?中醫(yī)生都知道,中醫(yī)得到政府的大力支持,文革前對中醫(yī)的激烈的反對意見都被壓下去了。但他們不能肯定,一旦政府的支持停止了該怎么辦。他們?yōu)橹С种嗅t(yī)提供的理由是尋找中醫(yī)與舶來品一樣有效的證據(jù)。他們知道,在有權(quán)決定資源分配(比如,醫(yī)學(xué)院中學(xué)中醫(yī)和學(xué)西醫(yī)的學(xué)生的比例)的那些人眼里,依據(jù)的標(biāo)準(zhǔn)是現(xiàn)代科學(xué)——雖然這些標(biāo)準(zhǔn)并沒有完全被理解,但卻時時懸在中醫(yī)生的頭上。
    
    
    I began the seminar with two propositions:
    
    1. Chinese medicine is not a science, and neither is Western medicine.
    2. Aspects of Chinese medicine are regularly evaluated by the criteria of biomedicine, but traditional criteria are practically never used to assess biomedical practice. This situation, I said, reminded me of the “unequal treaties” China was forced to sign with the imperialist powers in the nineteenth century.
    
    我在那次研討會開始時提出兩個論點(diǎn):
    
    1、中醫(yī)不是科學(xué),西醫(yī)也不是科學(xué)。
    2、人們一直用西醫(yī)的標(biāo)準(zhǔn)來評價中醫(yī),而很少有人用中醫(yī)的標(biāo)準(zhǔn)來評價西醫(yī)。我說,這種現(xiàn)狀讓我聯(lián)想到十九世紀(jì)中國與西方被迫簽定的不平等條約。
    
    
    The debate was predictably lively. Anyone practising or studying Chinese medicine in China is used to defending the idea that it is a science. The notion that biomedicine itself is not a science left the participants, with the exception of a few perennially skeptical graduate students, stymied. I argued that for most historians and many physicians, medicine is an art of caring for suffering people that mostly just uses knowledge from biology, chemistry, physics, etc., and that a physician who approached a patient like a biological scientist approaching an experimental animal could not provide good care. My point did not have much impact. Tossing away the ideal of Science is too dangerous, even for the sake of discussion.
    
    可以想象討論有多熱烈,中國的中醫(yī)生或中醫(yī)研究者歷來主張中醫(yī)是科學(xué)。除了幾個對什么都懷疑的研究生外,西醫(yī)不是科學(xué)這個觀點(diǎn)讓絕大多數(shù)與會者目瞪口呆。我的觀點(diǎn)是,對大多數(shù)歷史學(xué)家和很多醫(yī)生來說,醫(yī)學(xué)是一門照料病人的技藝,這門技藝運(yùn)用了很多生物、化學(xué)、物理等的知識。但如果一個醫(yī)生用生物學(xué)家處理實(shí)驗(yàn)動物的方法來診治病人,他就不可能提供良好的醫(yī)療效果。我的論點(diǎn)沒什么人能接受,拋棄科學(xué)的理念太危險,即使僅僅是為了討論的緣故。
    
    
    The second point did not fare better. I found erudite scholars asking me, rather than telling me, how Chinese medicine could possibly be used to improve Western medicine. There was little response to my reply that conspicuous weaknesses of the latter might be remedied as a result of understanding strengths of the former-for instance,its close fit with the way Chinese patients experience illness, the concern of physicians with the whole somatic and emotional constellation of the patient, and their habit of considering disease as an evolving and ramifying process of which all the significant outcomes must be anticipated in therapy.
    
    第二個論點(diǎn)的遭遇也好不到哪里去。一些學(xué)養(yǎng)深厚的學(xué)者們問我,而不是告訴我,中醫(yī)怎么可能用來改進(jìn)西醫(yī)?我回答說,對前者的優(yōu)勢(比如,它與中國病人患病的經(jīng)歷方法是一脈相承的,中醫(yī)對病人的身體和七情六欲的整體的把握,以及他們習(xí)慣于把疾病看成是一個變化和互相關(guān)聯(lián)的過程,而在治療中對這個過程的所有有意義的現(xiàn)象都要有所掌握)的理解可以用來彌補(bǔ)后者的明顯的弱點(diǎn),但對此幾乎沒什么人感興趣。
    
    
    Here and elsewhere I was often told that what mattered was not such intangibles but the technology that Chinese medicine commanded-acupuncture, moxibustion, -natural drugs, and so no. Few would agree with me that such techniques are easily appropriated by people who do not consider the rest worth keeping. Few saw that this view of traditional medicine as a mere collection of technical resources would leave no future for its sophisticated functional view of body processes, its subtle diagnostic reasoning, its live interplay of classical doctrine and clinical experience, and so on. I found a great deal of enthusiasm for computer diagnosis, uninformed about the criticisms levelled in the West against that aid to medical industrialization. None of these enthusiasts admitted that there is any significant difference between a reasoned diagnosis based on examination of a whole, living person and a decision tree based on a list of symptoms.
    
    不僅是這里,在其它地方也一樣,人們總是告訴我,有用的不是中醫(yī)理論里那些抽象的東西,而是具體的技術(shù),比如針灸、草藥,等等。我認(rèn)為這些技術(shù)性的東西很容易掌握,甚至被那些主張拋棄中醫(yī)理論的人掌握,但很少有人同意我的這一觀點(diǎn)。很少有人意識到,這種把中醫(yī)看成是一堆技術(shù)資源的組合的觀點(diǎn),會毀了未來中醫(yī)里精深的對人體功能性的認(rèn)識、中醫(yī)微妙的辯證推理以及生動的理論與實(shí)踐的相輔相成,等等。我發(fā)現(xiàn)很多人對計算機(jī)診斷很感興趣,卻不了解西方對這種醫(yī)學(xué)工業(yè)化的工具的批評。這些人也說不出建立在檢查一個完整的活人上的診斷,與基于一組癥狀的決策樹(decision tree)之間有什么重大區(qū)別。
    
    
    Finally, then, there is the question of whether such differences will continue to be crucial. The doubts I had expressed in the book were reinforced by many conversations. Young doctors told me again and again that they do not really grasp manifestation type determination(bianzheng), and prefer to diagnose by symptoms. Medical school, they said, did not give them a deep enough understanding of yin-yang and the Five Phases to make them confident about using theses concepts. They are thus driven to diagnose on the basis of what seem to them more concrete and objective Western criteria. They are aware that it is impossible to work out a traditional course of therapy on the basis of a biomedical diagnosis, but that is the best they can do, and they do it somehow.
    
    最后還有一點(diǎn),這些區(qū)別還能繼續(xù)起到?jīng)Q定性作用嗎?我與很多人進(jìn)行的交談加深了我在那本書中的疑問。年輕的中醫(yī)生一再告訴我,他們根本就不真正理解辯證施治,而寧愿由病癥來診斷。他們說,中醫(yī)學(xué)院沒有提供對陰陽五行的深刻認(rèn)識,因而他們無法運(yùn)用這些概念。因此,他們只能用具體的,客觀的西方標(biāo)準(zhǔn)來下診斷。他們知道,設(shè)計一種基于西醫(yī)診斷上的中醫(yī)治療是不可能的,但他們只能這么干,而他們在某種程度上就是這么作的。
    
    
    This atrophy of traditional doctrine is not their fault. As children they did not learn to think about the world in terms of ancient Chinese philosophy. In school they learned physics, chemistry, and biology instead. By the time a new physician begins practice, chances are that she has never read through the Inner Canon or any other medical book, much less the old philosophic books that were the basis even of elementary education in China before the twentieth century. The young doctors who spoke to me frankly were determined to meet the heavy demands of good practice, but few felt well prepared.
    
    中醫(yī)理論的這種萎縮不是他們的錯,他們從小就沒有接觸到中國古典哲學(xué)的世界觀。在學(xué)校里他們學(xué)的是物理、化學(xué)和生物。當(dāng)一個人完成醫(yī)生的培訓(xùn),開始工作的時候,她可能連內(nèi)經(jīng)都沒讀過,更不用說那些二十世紀(jì)以前作為中國文化基礎(chǔ)的哲學(xué)書籍。那些與我坦率地交談過的年輕中醫(yī)們決心要努力完成一名好醫(yī)生所要負(fù)擔(dān)的職責(zé),但很少人認(rèn)為自己有很扎實(shí)的基礎(chǔ)知識。
    
    
    But there is a still larger question, mentioned above, that no one can answer. Many ordinary people educated before 1949 prefer Chinese medicine because they use yin-yang and the Five Phases, not the language of anatomy and physiology, to understand their bodies. What will happen when they are gone?What will Chinese medicine, assuming it survives for another generation, have to say to patients who see their bodies as a collection of physical and chemical processes? My experience left me still wondering, still with no clue to a final answer.
    
    上面還提出了一個更大的問題,卻沒人能回答。那就是,很多1949年前受教育的普通中國人更愿意去看中醫(yī),因?yàn)檫@些人習(xí)慣于用陰陽五行的思想去理解人體,而不是西方的解剖學(xué),生理學(xué)。那么這批人走了之后是個什么局面?下一代的中醫(yī),假如中醫(yī)能生存到那時的話,用什么語言與病人交談呢?這一代人對身體的認(rèn)識是用物理及化學(xué)過程來描述的。我的經(jīng)歷,讓我對這個問題仍然找不到最后的答案。
    
    
    American Journal of Acupuncture, vol.18,no.4, 1990, 341-343.
    
    
    本文作者席文(Nathan Sivin)現(xiàn)為賓夕法尼亞大學(xué)名譽(yù)教授,主攻中國科技史、傳統(tǒng)中醫(yī)學(xué)、中國哲學(xué)及中國宗教。與李約瑟同為知名漢學(xué)家。
    
    原文鏈接
    轉(zhuǎn)載自:譯言網(wǎng) 譯者:柴橋鐘家人
    


網(wǎng)友評論2013-05-05 17:06


    又要引站么
    
網(wǎng)友評論2013-05-05 17:09


    震天的戰(zhàn)鼓在再次敲響!
    
網(wǎng)友評論2013-05-05 17:10


    那我7年學(xué)的醫(yī)學(xué)是什么 巫術(shù)? 病人都自己好的?
    
網(wǎng)友評論2013-05-05 17:11


    所謂“西醫(yī)”即現(xiàn)代醫(yī)學(xué),所憑借的就是物理學(xué)、化學(xué)、藥學(xué)和生理衛(wèi)生學(xué)甚至社會學(xué)心理學(xué)等等諸多學(xué)科的發(fā)展而逐步發(fā)展的,席文說西醫(yī)不算科學(xué)這個叫偷換概念,有點(diǎn)白馬非馬的意味
    
    至于中醫(yī)部分我不發(fā)表任何意見,不引戰(zhàn)..........
    
網(wǎng)友評論2013-05-05 17:12


    ........這老外居心叵測....隱隱約約的有淫魔的樣子!
    
網(wǎng)友評論2013-05-05 17:13


    我現(xiàn)在看到漢學(xué)家這仨字就慎得慌
    
網(wǎng)友評論2013-05-05 17:13


    說的最好的就是人們總是用西醫(yī)標(biāo)準(zhǔn)來看中醫(yī),卻不用中醫(yī)標(biāo)準(zhǔn)看西醫(yī)
    
網(wǎng)友評論2013-05-05 17:15


    中醫(yī)能治好(自愈)某些病
    西醫(yī)能治好某些病
    
    西醫(yī)對中醫(yī)說:你的理論和我不一樣,你的不科學(xué)
    
網(wǎng)友評論2013-05-05 17:23


    又來又來了
    前段時間戰(zhàn)了還不夠嗎
    
網(wǎng)友評論2013-05-05 17:23


    超越越甜黨咸黨,端碗黨和放碗黨之間仇恨的號角吹響啦
    
網(wǎng)友評論2013-05-05 17:25


    有觀點(diǎn)無論正,幾無價值
    
    “在西方,生物醫(yī)學(xué)的有長處也有不足之處這種觀定已幾成定論!边@句話完全就是空話,真正有科學(xué)素養(yǎng)的人不會把科學(xué)當(dāng)成真理。
    
網(wǎng)友評論2013-05-05 17:28


    ……可這哥們都不是學(xué)醫(yī)的啊。
    
網(wǎng)友評論2013-05-05 17:31


    Reply to Reply Post by hzs213hzp (2013-05-05 17:13)
    
    這人是搞科學(xué)史研究的。其實(shí)是個文科生……
    
網(wǎng)友評論2013-05-05 17:33


    漢學(xué)家的東西么
    另外,能告訴我為什么現(xiàn)代醫(yī)學(xué)不是科學(xué)么?
    是因?yàn)椴豢勺C偽,不可觀測,不可重復(fù)么?
    是沒有普適性么?
    
網(wǎng)友評論2013-05-05 17:34


    尼瑪搞史學(xué)研究的有自信在這講科學(xué)?這通篇的抒情散文哪里科學(xué)了?
    
網(wǎng)友評論2013-05-05 17:35


    這都月經(jīng)戰(zhàn)了...
    
網(wǎng)友評論2013-05-05 17:37


    漢學(xué)家,呵呵。
    文科生,呵呵。
    
網(wǎng)友評論2013-05-05 17:39


    方舟子:都讓開 老子最科學(xué) 你們都是偽科學(xué) 你們?nèi)叶际牵?br />     
網(wǎng)友評論2013-05-05 17:42


    Reply Post by 東方神乞 (2013-05-05 17:15):
    
    中醫(yī)能治好(自愈)某些病
    西醫(yī)能治好某些病
    
    西醫(yī)對中醫(yī)說:你的理論和我不一樣,你的不科學(xué)
    
    嘿。。nga信仰科學(xué)的人可不是一個兩個啊。。
    

    
    
    

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